Yaris: “How can you argue that it’s only benefit is game storage when it is, without a doubt, soaring in the movie industry. Fact of the matter is, Blu-ray is a great format. Try to argue it all you want – it is, indefinitely, going to replace DVD’s and has been chosen due to its bitrate and disc size. It’s a versatile format.”

Doc said: “Blu-ray is slow. It’s only benefit to games is storage.”

You see there. My argument was TO games. I mentioned nothing about movie playback or its performance in that area. There’s no argument that it is a great technology. As for replacing DVD’s. Too early to call I think. Let’s look at The Dark Knight as a benchmark. Broke blu-ray sales records. Gives much hope for the format. That’s all well and good. BUT, when compared to DVD the Blu-ray sold 600,000 units on the first day whereas the DVD sold 3 million in one day. (one source said 7 million dvd’s. I don’t think it’s correct though) I know that DVD is the more established tech and has the most market penetration. But that’s the point, it’s gonna take some years to close the gap I think. And by that time who knows what gonna be out there tech wise.

Yaris: “For Microsoft to adopt another Toshiba HD DVD format (dual layered or not) would just be both ignorant and irrelevant to the consumer. Let’s think about this: Blu-ray is now the next-gen high definition format. ALL, I repeat, ALL movie studios are now supporting the format and it is, without saying, the only format to offer a high-definition experience as of now.”

Well I don’t think they’ll go back to HDDVD. I’m just sayin it could be an option for games. As I’m sure by now Toshiba could have a better HDDVD spec that is faster and larger. I’m more in the thought that they will create a new format. They might have a player much like LG’s super HD laser that reads both HD AND Blu-Ray discs. This makes sense to me cause I don’t agree with the original article that they are bitter. They simply don’t wanna pay they’re competitor on any and everything that is blu-ray in the next box. Think about it. They would have to pay Sony for the disc technology AND the BR capable drives and licensing fees. Why not avoid that by creating a disc spec of your own FOR GAMES and have a drive that is capable of reading blu-ray spec. I would imagine it’d be less costly to just have a BR capable drive in there than paying for everything software related on a disc to be blu-ray.

Yaris: “HD DVD’s tripple layer disc is not larger than Blu-ray’s. That is false. TDK has developed a 200GB Blu-ray which trumps any of Toshiba’s attempts.”

Doc: “Toshiba had a triple layer HD disc @ 51GB, 1GB more than a dual BR”

I said larger than a Dual Layer BR. Which is not false. Pioneer developed a 400GB BR prototype. So what? Let’s keep in mind real world application here. Not to mention the cost of buying and developing games for 200-400 GB discs would be astronomical. We’re prolly a good 20 – 25 years from that kind of usage.

“Hideo Kojima, developer and creator of the Metal Gear Solid franchise, has stated that the 50GB Dual Layer Blu-ray disc wasn’t enough for him.”

Yea let’s talk about what’s on the disc and the how Eastern methods of game making come into play. Right off the bat I can tell you that HD video (not game assets, the wacky ass commercial stuff and whatever else) were used on the disc. HD video, depending on compression and Resolution, requires huge amounts of GB’s. Something I know you already know. But this is not required for today’s (or tomorrow’s) games. Uncompressed audio is a nice feature, but also requires huge chunks of data. The guys making Prototype are gonna use a new fancy THX 7.1 spec on the Xbox 360 version (won’t be done on PS3 version) that was shown at CES. I would like to see how this compares to uncompressed and whether or not consumers would even notice or care. Again my point is it’s just eating GB’s and not required. (I admit it’s awesome though)
And then there’s the extended cutscene method of game making. Again, not required. =P

This is getting long in tooth but I just can’t see developer’s needing 50GB (as in a DL BR) for the next generation of games. Look at games like GTA4, Fable 2 and Mass Effect. HUGE games. Millions upon Millions to make. And years and years to create. And are fitting on `7GB (DVD9 spec is 8.5GB, some that reserved for M$ encryption and data) I don’t see how we can expect developers to create games fully using 50GB’s. I mean imagine a GTA5 fully using 50GB, it would not only be the most expensive game ever made, but would prolly take 10 years to create. GTA4 was in development 4-5 years I think.

I’m just gonna stop now cause I could go on. lol You do have good points about Blu ray. I think it’s great for sony going foward. Not sure it’s the right tech for M$. I didn’t even get into how well their HD movie downloads and Netflix service is doing (which also does HD) =P

I will have to disagree with some of your points. Blu-ray read and write speeds have increased in the past year and will continue to do so as the technology continues to move forward (which it is doing). How can you argue that it’s only benefit is game storage when it is, without a doubt, soaring in the movie industry. Fact of the matter is, Blu-ray is a great format. Try to argue it all you want – it is, indefinitely, going to replace DVD’s and has been chosen due to its bitrate and disc size. It’s a versatile format.

For Microsoft to adopt another Toshiba HD DVD format (dual layered or not) would just be both ignorant and irrelevant to the consumer. Let’s think about this: Blu-ray is now the next-gen high definition format. ALL, I repeat, ALL movie studios are now supporting the format and it is, without saying, the only format to offer a high-definition experience as of now. Sony has showed, with the PS2, that implementing a technology, such as it did with DVD, can benefit the consumer as an entertainment machine for both movies and gaming. Microsoft and Sony’s objective is to join the term “home entertainment” with a single console that is capable of doing everything. For Microsoft to adopt a format simply for the means of gaming is simply stupid. Yes the Wii does that, but Nintendo has never ever established themselves as a company wanting to implement the home entertainment goal (just a fun-filled console).

HD DVD’s tripple layer disc is not larger than Blu-ray’s. That is false. TDK has developed a 200GB Blu-ray which trumps any of Toshiba’s attempts. Read speeds… HD DVD had a maximum read speed of 2x @ 72 Mbit/s; Blu-ray has a read mechanism of 12x @ 432 Mbit/s. Blu-ray wins here, again. As game development becomes more complex and graphics improve, larger storage media larger than 15GB WILL be needed. Hideo Kojima, developer and creator of the Metal Gear Solid franchise, has stated that the 50GB Dual Layer Blu-ray disc wasn’t enough for him. The more complex development gets the larger the disc space required will be. High-res textures, higher polygon count, game engine, uncompressed sound, length of game, etc. all this becomes a factor in disc size when developing a game on a console.

You have to remember that coding on a console if far more complicated than coding on a PC. PC games come already compressed on a DVD (nowadays DVD9 discs). There are some PC games that uncompress from 9GB to 12GB, at times. Consoles have all that uncompressed data stored on disc. The reason the PS3 offered Mandatory installation, as you suggested, was to decrease load times and texture rendering (which the 360 is now doing).

There is a need for Blu-ray. I’m not arguing this as a PS3 fanboy. I’m arguing this as a consumer and as a geek. Blu-ray disc has become a benefit for both the gaming and entertainment industry because of its colossal storage space. For Microsoft to choose another Toshiba format over Blu-ray would be ridiculous and a bad business move on their end. They’re going to have to adopt the technology sooner or later as it is a good alternative to their current DVD9 usage which becomes more cost-effective when producing a single game on multiple discs (i.e. Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, etc).