After careful deliberation with myself, I have rescinded my original animosity toward Microsoft for the things they have done over the past week; deciding that Blu-Ray is unimportant, and that they are in no rush for the next generation Xbox. Originally I thought it stupid of them to state, or even think, both of these things. However, with second sight, and my breath back from screaming so loudly at them, I decided that maybe I was a bit harsh and abrupt.
To begin, on the Blu-Ray discussion, companies and CEO’s lie, all the time—Steve Jobs about being healthy, Madoff about his entire business strategy, Tim Geithner about his taxes—so we really have to take everything Robby Bach, and everyone else over at Microsoft says with a grain of salt. Secondly, if Microsoft is adamant about taking their time with the next generation Xbox, then maybe Blu-Ray wont even be the best possible solution to Xbox’s quality and disc storage issues; technology is moving forward so quickly that in two or three years, they may be a new disc technology that outperforms Blu-Ray—who knows. Bach also said that Blu-Ray is “not a feature we get a ton of requests for.” Now I don’t really buy this statement but I suppose that the majority of gamers, including myself, who want to watch Blu-Ray movies either have a Blu-Ray player, or a PS3, and who needs another system that can play them, especially if it’s going to take the company time and money to create it; however, of the few reasons I bought my PS3, Blu-Ray playback was very high atop the list. Furthermore, it seems as though to world of movies is moving toward digital distribution, and thus a Blu-Ray player would be used infrequently. If steaming high-definition video is an option then, again, why waste the time and money in something that may have little use.
Now, along the lines of Bach saying that there is no rush for the next generation Xbox, I originally was a little perturbed, perplexed and upset. However, with more careful deliberation I think this is a good move. For one thing, the country and the world are in for a very dismal 2009, and it’s estimated Sony is going to take a 1.1 billion dollar loss—or something crazy like that—so why should Microsoft plunge into their pockets to deliver a system quickly that might not be the best quality, that will probably be very expensive, when the forecast is not good; people aren’t spending money, and what we have right now is working just fine. [Although I assumed they had already begun work on their new system (like 2 years ago), and were hard at work finishing it up this year; who knows, maybe they have and they’re just messing with us (I doubt it, but wouldn’t that be cool?)]. I also believe this move to delay, or state that they aren’t hard at work, is partly because they don’t want to include Blu-Ray, as Bach stated. It could be that they are trying to find a way to one up Sony and the PS3’s video quality with the use of new technology that is being developed. But who knows, maybe Microsoft isn’t interested in creating a better video quality system and they are more interested in their new endeavors to give more non-gamers reason to buy the Xbox 360; e.g., Netflix streaming.
Today’s world is moving so quickly and I, at first, was very upset to find out that Microsoft was not moving as quickly as I hoped on developing some new super system that would do my shopping, pick up my dry cleaning, and finish my math tests for me. But I have since calmed down and rationalized that this is probably a good move, to slow production and come out with the best system they can possibly come out with; one that innovates the world of videogames once again, and pushes the limit on what is possible, or what we believe to be impossible. Or maybe they want to add to their existing system and fix the many flaws that are in it, add things nobody has thought of and innovate the gaming world that way; much like the Wii has done with their easy family friendly videogames. Maybe my philosophy has been a bit skewed lately; it’s not trying to develop the greatest system with the best quality, the loudest games, the greatest quality, it’s developing a system that will cater to a majority of people, both hardcore and non-hardcore gamers, because of its hardware, software, and game library—Nintendo has taught me that.
Preach on, brother. Good editorial. I totally have to agree with most of your points. The fact that Microsoft has decided not to follow, or adapt, Blu-ray is only a sign of bitterness. Reality is, they backed a format (HD DVD) that had inferior technical specifications and are, more than likely, just being cautious. Blu-ray is an excellent format. It’s performing well, it has great specs, and it’s being used as a storage means in games this generation. However, technology is moving forward at an accelerated rate and newer technologies are already in the works, and have been developed, that surpass Blu-ray.
The good thing is that movie studios won’t be making that leap again into another format anytime soon. Simply because Blu-ray is doing what they need at the moment and is becoming less expensive. Regardless of how we look at it, even for next-gen, Microsoft won’t be using the Blu-ray tech in their consoles simply because a) they are just bitter (like Toshiba who still aren’t manufacturing Blu-ray players) or b) They are seriously pushing for digital distribution. Either way, they’re playing it stupid, imo.
Good points, both Max and Yaris. Blu-Ray is going to be around for a while. If you look at Blu-Ray vs. DVD at the same points in their life cycle, Blu-Ray is actually ahead of DVD in terms of adoption rate. Cost needs to come down soon, though.
I think digital distribution is going to the be the method of choice in the next round of consoles. Microsoft is heavily pushing it and hard drive prices are coming down exponentially. There are issues though, mainly in broadband uptake (it’s not very high in the US still). People will need a disc-based medium to get their games when they don’t have a big fat internet pipe to download the content.
I agree with your point that Microsoft shouldn’t be rushing to put out a new system anytime soon. I mean have the majority of gamers really started to out grow the current generation of consoles? I certainly havent. Granted I’ve only had my ps3 for about a year now, and I’m certainly not a hardcore gamer, but I still feel like a new gen of consoles that debuted in a year or so would be too soon. I would almost feel sad that my ps3 (or 360) would be pushed back to the last gen genre. I still believe there’s a vast amount of innovation and pleasure that can be acheieved with the current gen of consoles.
I also agree on your point that the fact that the ps3 has a blu-ray player is a huge plus but I don’t believe it’s necessary for Microsoft to implament blue-ray in either their cirrent gen or next gen consoles. There’s plenty of blu-ray players on the market now where buying an extra blu-ray drive for the 360 wont be that appealing and by the time the next gen consoles came out, like everyone pointed out, there will be much better storage mediums to use.
Good article man
@Crowley – I think from a game size perspective, Microsoft is in need of something for the next-gen system that provides more than just DVD. I don’t think a digital distribution only system will work for the vast majority of gamers who aren’t online.
I’m suprised most people when discussing a new Xbox console ever considers software this generation and why the 360 is gonna be around for several more years. The 360 currently sells more software than the PS3 and Wii combined. lemme repeat, more than the PS3 and Wii COMBINED. If you asked 3rd party publisher’s and developer’s to move to new hardware at this point in the game, your asking them to turn their back on garunteed money and user base. Not gonna happen. Would be fool’s to even try it.
The 360 has managed to do EXACTLY what Microsoft needed. They are the PS2 of this generation. More consoles out there, more games, and quality exclusives. Also as with the PS2 proved, and as history has shown is always the case, software makes the hardware. With the NXE they have the ability to change the console as needed. And Cliffy has said that there is still more juice to get out of 360 than what they done with Gears 2. Because again, if you have amazing programmers , software makes the hardware. not vice versa.
Blu-ray, the one thing keeping me from buying a PS3. I feel like I would be paying an extra $100 for something I honestly don’t care for now. Resolution versus value, and to me, $30 for a movie is laughable. Something I MIGHT watch once a year for $30 is not value. Plus I would prolly just download HD rips and either stream or watch them from the HDD.
Blu-ray is slow. It’s only benefit to games is storage. What’s the point of having so much space if I gotta install most PS3 games to the HDD just to play. Kinda defeats the purpose. Killzone 2 being a huge exception. cannot believe that game doesn’t require ANY install. That goes back to previous point. Amazing programmers and software makes the hardware.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see M$ use a proprietary format developed by toshiba or M$ themselves. Hell, they could go backwards and just use Dual layer HDDVD disc solely for the purpose for games. Which would be faster than blu-ray (able to stream large textures without install) and comparable in size. (Toshiba had a triple layer HD disc @ 51GB, 1GB more than a dual BR) I really don’t see the next generation of games requiring more than 15GB. The most graphically impressive PC games don’t use anywhere near that and they have the ability to still use extremely high resolution textures.
Ok, too much coffee. I’m stopping now. lol XD
Couldn’t digital distribution work if when you wanted to buy a gamer, for a gamer offline, you were able to get the game via some thrid party harddrive ? Like you went to best buy and downloaded a game you wanted to buy.
@ Doc
I will have to disagree with some of your points. Blu-ray read and write speeds have increased in the past year and will continue to do so as the technology continues to move forward (which it is doing). How can you argue that it’s only benefit is game storage when it is, without a doubt, soaring in the movie industry. Fact of the matter is, Blu-ray is a great format. Try to argue it all you want – it is, indefinitely, going to replace DVD’s and has been chosen due to its bitrate and disc size. It’s a versatile format.
For Microsoft to adopt another Toshiba HD DVD format (dual layered or not) would just be both ignorant and irrelevant to the consumer. Let’s think about this: Blu-ray is now the next-gen high definition format. ALL, I repeat, ALL movie studios are now supporting the format and it is, without saying, the only format to offer a high-definition experience as of now. Sony has showed, with the PS2, that implementing a technology, such as it did with DVD, can benefit the consumer as an entertainment machine for both movies and gaming. Microsoft and Sony’s objective is to join the term “home entertainment” with a single console that is capable of doing everything. For Microsoft to adopt a format simply for the means of gaming is simply stupid. Yes the Wii does that, but Nintendo has never ever established themselves as a company wanting to implement the home entertainment goal (just a fun-filled console).
HD DVD’s tripple layer disc is not larger than Blu-ray’s. That is false. TDK has developed a 200GB Blu-ray which trumps any of Toshiba’s attempts. Read speeds… HD DVD had a maximum read speed of 2x @ 72 Mbit/s; Blu-ray has a read mechanism of 12x @ 432 Mbit/s. Blu-ray wins here, again. As game development becomes more complex and graphics improve, larger storage media larger than 15GB WILL be needed. Hideo Kojima, developer and creator of the Metal Gear Solid franchise, has stated that the 50GB Dual Layer Blu-ray disc wasn’t enough for him. The more complex development gets the larger the disc space required will be. High-res textures, higher polygon count, game engine, uncompressed sound, length of game, etc. all this becomes a factor in disc size when developing a game on a console.
You have to remember that coding on a console if far more complicated than coding on a PC. PC games come already compressed on a DVD (nowadays DVD9 discs). There are some PC games that uncompress from 9GB to 12GB, at times. Consoles have all that uncompressed data stored on disc. The reason the PS3 offered Mandatory installation, as you suggested, was to decrease load times and texture rendering (which the 360 is now doing).
There is a need for Blu-ray. I’m not arguing this as a PS3 fanboy. I’m arguing this as a consumer and as a geek. Blu-ray disc has become a benefit for both the gaming and entertainment industry because of its colossal storage space. For Microsoft to choose another Toshiba format over Blu-ray would be ridiculous and a bad business move on their end. They’re going to have to adopt the technology sooner or later as it is a good alternative to their current DVD9 usage which becomes more cost-effective when producing a single game on multiple discs (i.e. Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, etc).
@Yaris – terrific points. Agreed.
Bluray is not only a viable medium for movies, it also is suitable for data storage due to total capacity. PCs play more of a role in the adoption of new media these days, as they did with DVD.
Im confused … if blueray has such a fast read speed then why does the PS3 need to install pretty mych everything but cinematics to run at 60 FPS ?I was always under the assumption that it was because it read so slow even when compared to DVD let alone HD-DVD.
The PS3 is one of the first devices to implement Blu-ray. In this case, it has an older Blu-ray drive that reads at slower speeds compared to the Blu-ray players of today. New technology always starts at the bottom and works their ways up. Look at the DVD readers/players when they were first released – just as expensive (if not more) than Blu-ray and just as slow when reading discs. 60FPS cinematic are totally different from in-game 60FPS. The cinematic is only a reproduced video while the game itself is rendering/etc. onscreen.
Quite the interesting debate, I like it. Good work.
A few things:
Yaris: “How can you argue that it’s only benefit is game storage when it is, without a doubt, soaring in the movie industry. Fact of the matter is, Blu-ray is a great format. Try to argue it all you want – it is, indefinitely, going to replace DVD’s and has been chosen due to its bitrate and disc size. It’s a versatile format.”
Doc said: “Blu-ray is slow. It’s only benefit to games is storage.”
You see there. My argument was TO games. I mentioned nothing about movie playback or its performance in that area. There’s no argument that it is a great technology. As for replacing DVD’s. Too early to call I think. Let’s look at The Dark Knight as a benchmark. Broke blu-ray sales records. Gives much hope for the format. That’s all well and good. BUT, when compared to DVD the Blu-ray sold 600,000 units on the first day whereas the DVD sold 3 million in one day. (one source said 7 million dvd’s. I don’t think it’s correct though) I know that DVD is the more established tech and has the most market penetration. But that’s the point, it’s gonna take some years to close the gap I think. And by that time who knows what gonna be out there tech wise.
Yaris: “For Microsoft to adopt another Toshiba HD DVD format (dual layered or not) would just be both ignorant and irrelevant to the consumer. Let’s think about this: Blu-ray is now the next-gen high definition format. ALL, I repeat, ALL movie studios are now supporting the format and it is, without saying, the only format to offer a high-definition experience as of now.”
Well I don’t think they’ll go back to HDDVD. I’m just sayin it could be an option for games. As I’m sure by now Toshiba could have a better HDDVD spec that is faster and larger. I’m more in the thought that they will create a new format. They might have a player much like LG’s super HD laser that reads both HD AND Blu-Ray discs. This makes sense to me cause I don’t agree with the original article that they are bitter. They simply don’t wanna pay they’re competitor on any and everything that is blu-ray in the next box. Think about it. They would have to pay Sony for the disc technology AND the BR capable drives and licensing fees. Why not avoid that by creating a disc spec of your own FOR GAMES and have a drive that is capable of reading blu-ray spec. I would imagine it’d be less costly to just have a BR capable drive in there than paying for everything software related on a disc to be blu-ray.
Yaris: “HD DVD’s tripple layer disc is not larger than Blu-ray’s. That is false. TDK has developed a 200GB Blu-ray which trumps any of Toshiba’s attempts.”
Doc: “Toshiba had a triple layer HD disc @ 51GB, 1GB more than a dual BR”
I said larger than a Dual Layer BR. Which is not false. Pioneer developed a 400GB BR prototype. So what? Let’s keep in mind real world application here. Not to mention the cost of buying and developing games for 200-400 GB discs would be astronomical. We’re prolly a good 20 – 25 years from that kind of usage.
“Hideo Kojima, developer and creator of the Metal Gear Solid franchise, has stated that the 50GB Dual Layer Blu-ray disc wasn’t enough for him.”
Yea let’s talk about what’s on the disc and the how Eastern methods of game making come into play. Right off the bat I can tell you that HD video (not game assets, the wacky ass commercial stuff and whatever else) were used on the disc. HD video, depending on compression and Resolution, requires huge amounts of GB’s. Something I know you already know. But this is not required for today’s (or tomorrow’s) games. Uncompressed audio is a nice feature, but also requires huge chunks of data. The guys making Prototype are gonna use a new fancy THX 7.1 spec on the Xbox 360 version (won’t be done on PS3 version) that was shown at CES. I would like to see how this compares to uncompressed and whether or not consumers would even notice or care. Again my point is it’s just eating GB’s and not required. (I admit it’s awesome though)
And then there’s the extended cutscene method of game making. Again, not required. =P
This is getting long in tooth but I just can’t see developer’s needing 50GB (as in a DL BR) for the next generation of games. Look at games like GTA4, Fable 2 and Mass Effect. HUGE games. Millions upon Millions to make. And years and years to create. And are fitting on `7GB (DVD9 spec is 8.5GB, some that reserved for M$ encryption and data) I don’t see how we can expect developers to create games fully using 50GB’s. I mean imagine a GTA5 fully using 50GB, it would not only be the most expensive game ever made, but would prolly take 10 years to create. GTA4 was in development 4-5 years I think.
I’m just gonna stop now cause I could go on. lol You do have good points about Blu ray. I think it’s great for sony going foward. Not sure it’s the right tech for M$. I didn’t even get into how well their HD movie downloads and Netflix service is doing (which also does HD) =P
Tbh, I didn’t finish reading the article but reading the comments were interesting. I have to agree with Yaris for being on point when opposed to Doc, but Doc sure had same great points himself.
nice editorial, blu-ray is great. plus im not a big fan of microsoft external hd drives
some people couldn’t care less about blu-ray and the x-box is doing better than the ps3. deal with it.